Delta to start LAX-SYD service

[JF Mezei]

In addition to starting LAX-Sao Paulo, Delta will, on July 1 2009, start
daily LAX-SYD service. It will use 777-200LR.

This gives Delta new bragging rights: only USA airline that flies to 6
continents.

Delta says it can start to build its LAX "hub" now that it has a
marketing agreement with Alaska Air which will feed its long hauls.

This also gives Skyteam a much needed presence in Australia.

So, competition is coming back to USA-SoPac routes.
.
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[matt weber]

On Fri, 19 Dec 2008 14:18:42 -0500, JF Mezei

Post by JF Mezei
In addition to starting LAX-Sao Paulo, Delta will, on July 1 2009, start
daily LAX-SYD service. It will use 777-200LR.
This gives Delta new bragging rights: only USA airline that flies to 6
continents.
Delta says it can start to build its LAX "hub" now that it has a
marketing agreement with Alaska Air which will feed its long hauls.
This also gives Skyteam a much needed presence in Australia.

Ha Ha. Presence, but no market share. Some evening count the number
of Red Tails at LAX. Most evenings it is 5. DL is offering 7
777-200LR services per week to the South Pacific, QF has 42 (51 if
you count the HNL services), UA has 14.

276 seats a day, compared to QF's 2500 per day, of which about 1700
are to Sydney. the money on this route is in the premium cabins, and
there DL will have 43 seats per day to QF's roughly 500 a day. 78 per
747-438ER, 86 per A380, almost 100 per 747-438 equipped with premium
economy, and 56 per 747-438 with a two class configuration (LAX-AKL services).

While DL has a good US domestic route system, they are without a
partner for onward travel in the South Pacific beyond Sydney. This
seriously restricts the potential market penetration.

The reality is the market is littered with failed attempts to compete.
American has come and gone from the South Pacific at least 3 times on
its own aircraft. They now provide domestic feed in the USA for QF,
and code share extensively with QF.
Northwest previously flew LAX-SYD non-stop. It lasted about 2 years
in the early 1990's with 744's, NW was never able to make money on
the route. NW also flew Osaka to Sydney (probably OSA, since I think
it was before KIX), they had to give the seats away.
They couldn't compete with JL and QF. NW exited the market.

Continental has been effectively gone from Australia as well for some
time. (Air Micronesia flies into CNS twice a week from GUM).

Air New Zealand has also offered non-stop LAX-SYD service, the
collapse of Ansett Australia eliminated their domestic feed in
Australia, and NZ has also left the non-stop LAX-SYD market.

The lack of domestic feed in Australia has resulted in UA presence in
the South Pacific being smaller today than it was 10 years ago, while
QF's lift in the market is now more than twice what it was 10 years ago.

DL entry into this market is an opportunity to offer Sky Team
Frequent Flyers points to Sydney, and free trips to Sydney, but that
is the extent of its relevance to market.
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[Jon Monreal]

Indeed, it seems amazing to me how many flights Qantas (QF) operates
from the United States to Australia compared to flights by other
airlines. And to top it off, they are operating B747-400s and A380s,
so its not like they are taking more flights with less people.

As far as airlines based in America go, United clearly has the most
marketshare for flights to Australia, although that may change if DL
thinks that they have a market for their services. It seems that QF
will always offer better quality for flights to Australia, and that DL
will just cover SkyTeam flights and grow to be more like what UA is
for the Star Alliance. Whether DL will seriously compete with UA for
american-carrier service to Australia remains to be seen. It would
seem that DL has become more and more focused on flying everywhere,
and it will be interesting to see what actions DL takes now.

QF really does dominate the market, and there is little chance of this
changing anytime soon.
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[A Guy Called Tyketto]

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Post by Jon Monreal
QF really does dominate the market, and there is little chance of this
changing anytime soon.

This also all depends on how V Australia does, as they are
delaying their initial SYD-LAX route until February and BNE-LAX in
March, on their B773s. This would connect the Virgin network all the
way through on TransPac, plus give Qantas much needed competition,
especially on the BNE route. Virgin would already have good penetration
into US routes through VRD, where Qantas would have to rely on
codeshare through AAL. DAL is definitely going to have a hard time with
this, unless they also find some way to link up some flights between
SYD, MEL, BNE, PER, and NRT, ICN, or the like.

BL.
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[Jon Monreal]

Post by A Guy Called Tyketto
This also all depends on how V Australia does, as they are
delaying their initial SYD-LAX route until February and BNE-LAX in
March, on their B773s. This would connect the Virgin network all the
way through on TransPac, plus give Qantas much needed competition,
especially on the BNE route. Virgin would already have good penetration
into US routes through VRD, where Qantas would have to rely on
codeshare through AAL. DAL is definitely going to have a hard time with
this, unless they also find some way to link up some flights between
SYD, MEL, BNE, PER, and NRT, ICN, or the like.

Somehow I doubt Virgin America will result in a large amount of
Americans flying Virgin Australia. It is important that this will
connect the Virgin network, but currently it seems that Virgin America
is more of a gateway, as it seems that those who would fly Virgin
America to LAX either live close to a Virgin hub in the east or flew
say Virgin Atlantic from the UK. Certainly the Virgin airlines all
offer very good service on their flights when compared to competitors;
I think this may change the situation eventually and more and more
people will start flying Virgin when it becomes more convenient to do
so. Let's admit, while Qantas does have to rely on their codeshare
with AA, it would be easier for people to get a flight with AA if they
don't live near an airport served by Virgin.

It does seem that DL will have a hard time. So far, all they have done
is put their foot in the door. Considering the SkyTeam lineup, if they
want to link up flights they will have to do it themselves, especially
with Continental leaving SkyTeam for the Star Alliance. It will be
interesting to see what they will do.

Post by A Guy Called Tyketto
How many people on the route are Australians, and how many are
Americans?

With how many flights Qantas has, I doubt they are all filled with
Australians going to and from Australia. I would imagine that QF flies
a good deal of Americans, perhaps not just those who fly AA and take
advantage of the codeshare. It would be very interesting to see the
statistics.

Post by A Guy Called Tyketto
I think you're going to see more services like this which spread the reach
of one or other of the alliances. When Air NZ started AKL/HKG/LHR in
addition to AKL/LAX/LHR I was a bit surprised. I could see them operating
that way so that through passengers avoided the hassle of having to enter
the USA but I couldn't see there was sufficient traffic to support double
daily LHR/AKL. Then I realised that Air NZ is the only Star airline
offering non-stop service LHR/HKG. I'm not saying that the Star issue is
the only reason Air NZ started flying via HKG but I reckon it was a part of
the logic.

Indeed, both alliances and codeshare are important here. It seems that
more and more member airlines of the different alliances are moving to
cover routes that have not been covered. If you think about it, there
is plenty of business sense to it. Every airline involved benefits
from the flight(s) they operate to get people from point A to B even
if they don't operate all the flights. In the end, they flying public
benefits because you can get from point A to B easier than before.
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[Roland Perry]

In message

Post by Jon Monreal
Indeed, it seems amazing to me how many flights Qantas (QF) operates
from the United States to Australia compared to flights by other
airlines. And to top it off, they are operating B747-400s and A380s,
so its not like they are taking more flights with less people.

How many people on the route are Australians, and how many are
Americans?

Would you expect the Australians to prefer their own airline?

[Graham Harrison]

I think you're going to see more services like this which spread the reach
of one or other of the alliances. When Air NZ started AKL/HKG/LHR in
addition to AKL/LAX/LHR I was a bit surprised. I could see them operating
that way so that through passengers avoided the hassle of having to enter
the USA but I couldn't see there was sufficient traffic to support double
daily LHR/AKL. Then I realised that Air NZ is the only Star airline
offering non-stop service LHR/HKG. I'm not saying that the Star issue is
the only reason Air NZ started flying via HKG but I reckon it was a part of
the logic.
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[w***@googlemail.com]

On Dec 20, 8:54 am, "Graham Harrison"

Post by Graham Harrison
I could see them operating
that way so that through passengers avoided the hassle of having to enter
the USA but I couldn't see there was sufficient traffic to support double
daily LHR/AKL.

 
There are enough horror stories of obviously innocent people getting
the TSA "GWOT VIP" treatment floating around here.

I have overheard potential travelers mention that given choice they
would
go for avoiding US transit.

Wid
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