First 787 announcement: Continental plans Houston-Auckland nonstop.

[Robin Johnson]

Auckland will be added to the 63 international destinations that
Continental currently serves nonstop from Houston, and will become the
26th destination in Continental's Pacific network. Continental serves
more destinations in the Pacific region than any other U.S. carrier.

Continental will be one of just three airlines flying nonstop between
North America and New Zealand. At approximately 7,400 miles, the new
route will be the longest from Continental's Houston hub. Continental
plans to operate the route on a daily basis, with five-times-weekly
service during certain periods in the first year of operation.

On May 3, Continental announced that it has agreed to merge with
United Airlines in a merger of equals to create the world's leading
airline. The success of the Houston-Auckland route will be enhanced by
the additional traffic flows through Houston that are expected to
result from the merger.

First 787 Route Announcement

Continental is the first airline in the world to formally announce
specific, initial route plans for its Boeing 787 Dreamliner fleet. The
airline has firm orders for 25 Dreamliners. The 787 is a new-
technology composite aircraft with lower operating costs, better
environmental performance and an improved cabin environment for
customer comfort. Deliveries to Continental are expected to begin in
August 2011. The aircraft will have 228 seats, including 36 of
Continental's new flat-bed BusinessFirst seats for the best rest on
long-distance flights.
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[JF Mezei]

Post by Robin Johnson
Auckland will be added to the 63 international destinations that
Continental currently serves nonstop from Houston,

So, after 2 decades, Continental decides to return to NZ. BTW, didn't
UA once fly to NZ ?


In light of the merger with UA, it is interesting that they would
annouce Houston as the US hub for those flights. Is that a temporary
"placeholder" with intentions to move this to LAX or SFO once the merger
is approved, or would the combined UA/CO really intend to shift much
trans-pac activity from LAX/SFO to Houston ?


I guess that the longer range aircraft will give airlines greater
flexibility on where to locate their intl gateway/hubs. With shorter
range aircraft, they were pretty much limited to LAX/SFO to reach the
south pacific.


Anyone know if CO's "no big plane" philosophy will prevail or would the
combined airline see a justification for some jumbos on trans pac routes?
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[A Guy Called Tyketto]

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Hash: SHA1

Post by JF Mezei

Post by Robin Johnson
Auckland will be added to the 63 international destinations that
Continental currently serves nonstop from Houston,

So, after 2 decades, Continental decides to return to NZ. BTW, didn't
UA once fly to NZ ?

Yes. UAL841, KLAX-NZAA-YMML and return.

Post by JF Mezei
In light of the merger with UA, it is interesting that they would
annouce Houston as the US hub for those flights. Is that a temporary
"placeholder" with intentions to move this to LAX or SFO once the merger
is approved, or would the combined UA/CO really intend to shift much
trans-pac activity from LAX/SFO to Houston ?

They'll still keep LAX and SFO. Those are gateways out to Asia
and Oceania. They honestly couldn't leave the Australia route open to
ANZ, QFA, VAU, and DAL, let alone their Japan routes. There wouldn't be
a N. American based Star Alliance presence on that route if UAL dropped
it.

Post by JF Mezei
I guess that the longer range aircraft will give airlines greater
flexibility on where to locate their intl gateway/hubs. With shorter
range aircraft, they were pretty much limited to LAX/SFO to reach the
south pacific.

Not entirely.. didn't COA use a B763 on their KIAH-PGUM run? I
don't remember seeing that one make the stop in Hawaii before
continuing.

Post by JF Mezei
Anyone know if CO's "no big plane" philosophy will prevail or would the
combined airline see a justification for some jumbos on trans pac routes?

Define 'big plane'. UAL's B744s are used primarily on the
US/Australia routes, and the A359s are to be replacing those. The B789s
will probably be used on the Asia routs as well, seeing that by the
time they get the new planes, their oldest B772 will be around 19 years
old, and those aren't even of the -LR or -ER variant. They'll be coming
up for replacement.

BL.
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[Robin Johnson]

Date: Thurs, May 27 2010 6:12 pm
From: JF Mezei

Post by Robin Johnson
Auckland will be added to the 63 international destinations that
Continental currently serves nonstop from Houston,

So, after 2 decades, Continental decides to return to NZ. BTW,
didn't
UA once fly to NZ ?

A Guy Called Tyketto replied

Yes. UAL841, KLAX-NZAA-YMML and return.

When this route last operated, a 772 was used by United
This was replaced with a LAX-SYD-MEL 744
routing some years back, leaving AKL to AirNZ within the Star
Alliance.


In light of the merger with UA, it is interesting that they would
annouce Houston as the US hub for those flights. Is that a
temporary
"placeholder" with intentions to move this to LAX or SFO once the
merger
is approved, or would the combined UA/CO really intend to shift
much
trans-pac activity from LAX/SFO to Houston

I don't see this as a placeholder. looks to me like an intelligent use
of new
aorcraft capability.

I guess that the longer range aircraft will give airlines greater
flexibility on where to locate their intl gateway/hubs. With
shorter
range aircraft, they were pretty much limited to LAX/SFO to reach
the
south pacific.

Air New Zealand for a time flew out of DFW with 747s, but never was
able to
build sufficient frequency and feed to make it viable. CO has all the
feed
possibilities you could want at its IAH hub, and also onward Air NZ
feed to
much of Australia and all of New Zealand through AKL,

I would not be surprised to see a 787 operation through IAH to SYD or
MEL
in addition to AKL, while continuing with 744s or 359s out of LAX and
SFO
in the longer run.

Of course, CO's planned configuration of the 787, 44C/194Y will look a
tad meager when compared with Air NZ's 4 classes!

Robin Johnson
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[John Levine]

Post by JF Mezei
In light of the merger with UA, it is interesting that they would
annouce Houston as the US hub for those flights. Is that a
temporary "placeholder" with intentions to move this to LAX or
SFO once the merger is approved, or would the combined UA/CO
really intend to shift much trans-pac activity from LAX/SFO to
Houston

For those of us on the east coast, IAH is a great place to connect to
New Zealand. From NYC, the trip is about 100 miles shorter than via
LAX and 200 miles shorter than via SFO.

R's,
John
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[matt weber]

On Fri, 28 May 2010 03:06:36 -0700 (PDT), Robin Johnson

Post by Robin Johnson
I would not be surprised to see a 787 operation through IAH to SYD or
MEL

I would be very surprised to see it anytime soon. The current OEW on
the 787-8, coupled with very optimistic estimates for passenger and
baggage weights mean that the real world range is considerable shorter
than is quoted in the brochures. Neither Boeing or Airbus uses
realistic estimates for actual OEW or passenger/baggage weights
Today's P/F and C/J seats weight a lot more than they did 20 years
ago, and a lot more than either Boeing or Airbus use in their
'typical' configurations.

Let me provide a specific example of the problem. NW has a substantial
fleet of 747-400, as far as I know NOT A SINGLE ONE OF THEM IS WITHIN
10,000 pounds of Boeings standard OEW. Today's passenger cabins with
IFE and other other equipment simply weigh a lot more than is spec'd.
Airbus equipment has acquired a reputation for being serious
overweight even before the cabin is fitted out.

The result is while Boeing quotes a range of 7260nm with 420
passengers and bags, when you work with real world configurations and
weights, as well as required reserves, you end up only being able to
carry about 300 units of self loading cargo.

IAH-AKL against prevailing winds is probably right at the limit of
787-8 performance. 16 hours with a commercial payload is pretty much
the limit on the 787-8 at this stage.

anwyay I concluded some time ago that with both the A350 and the 787
you could either have the promised passenger load, or the range, but
you could not have both at the same time.

The real attraction of the AKL-IAH is that it provides much better
connections to the Eastern USA than the LAX and SFO operations.

Post by Robin Johnson
in addition to AKL, while continuing with 744s or 359s out of LAX and
SFO
in the longer run.
Of course, CO's planned configuration of the 787, 44C/194Y will look a
tad meager when compared with Air NZ's 4 classes!
Robin Johnson

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[JF Mezei]

Post by matt weber
I would be very surprised to see it anytime soon. The current OEW on
the 787-8, coupled with very optimistic estimates for passenger and
baggage weights mean that the real world range is considerable shorter
than is quoted in the brochures.

http://www.gcmap.com/ (the great circle map site from karl swartz) has
a "special" about this flight. It appears that ETPOS 180 would require a
substantial detour. With 240minutes ETPOS, it would then make a nearly
direct flight to AKL with only 17nm deviation.

How quickly the 787 will be able to get 240-ETOPS certification is the
question I guess. Has 240 been granted to any aircraft/airline yet ?


I guess the "passengers vs range" argument puts the 340-500's
performance in perspective.


Since the announcement mentioned 2011 as entry into service, one would
have to assume that this would be with an "early batch" of 787s, the
ones that are heavier and patched up, as opposed to the later ones that
will be lighter and industrially made. So range would be more of an
issue for such a flight.
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[Jeff Hacker]

Post by Robin Johnson
Auckland will be added to the 63 international destinations that
Continental currently serves nonstop from Houston, and will become the
26th destination in Continental's Pacific network. Continental serves
more destinations in the Pacific region than any other U.S. carrier.
Continental will be one of just three airlines flying nonstop between
North America and New Zealand. At approximately 7,400 miles, the new
route will be the longest from Continental's Houston hub. Continental
plans to operate the route on a daily basis, with five-times-weekly
service during certain periods in the first year of operation.
On May 3, Continental announced that it has agreed to merge with
United Airlines in a merger of equals to create the world's leading
airline. The success of the Houston-Auckland route will be enhanced by
the additional traffic flows through Houston that are expected to
result from the merger.

Oh, come now. UA currently has limited service to Houston from Chicago,
Washington Dulles, and Denver. Continental already serves all those cities.
I agree that IAH-AKL will likely work for Contnental, but I seriously doubt
the United merger will do anything to enhance what already is there.

Post by Robin Johnson
First 787 Route Announcement
Continental is the first airline in the world to formally announce
specific, initial route plans for its Boeing 787 Dreamliner fleet. The
airline has firm orders for 25 Dreamliners. The 787 is a new-
technology composite aircraft with lower operating costs, better
environmental performance and an improved cabin environment for
customer comfort. Deliveries to Continental are expected to begin in
August 2011. The aircraft will have 228 seats, including 36 of
Continental's new flat-bed BusinessFirst seats for the best rest on
long-distance flights.
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